Harvard University, now that’s a real college. You know what? So are Kirkwood Community College in Iowa, Harold Washington College in Chicago, and every community college throughout the United States—over a thousand in all. In this February 2015 New York Times essay, writer Kristin O’Keefe argues that community colleges and their students merit more respect than they’re getting.
Read it here: O’Keefe, “The community college/‘real college’ divide”
- O’Keefe is clearly hoping to change the minds of people who don’t consider community college to be “real college.” Is her argument persuasive? Why or why not? What else might O’Keefe have said to make her argument stronger?
- O’Keefe asserts that people in the US can be divided into “people who believe in community colleges and people who dismiss and even diminish them.” Do you think O’Keefe’s assertion is accurate? Why or why not? On which side of the divide would you place yourself?
- O’Keefe admits that she did not attend a community college, nor did she experience any of the challenges or obstacles that many community college students confront on a daily basis. In what ways does her admission affect her credibility and authority on the subject? Explain your reasoning.
- Read (or re-read) Liz Addison’s essay in Chapter 16 of your text. O’Keefe’s essay was personal and did not cite any other authors, but Addison could have been a very useful They Say if O’Keefe had wanted to use other authors. Select two short passages from Addison’s essay that would support O’Keefe’s argument and explain why you chose them.
- A former college president interviewed by O’Keefe mentioned that Harvard students would “likely be successful with or without that university,” but that a community college could completely change a student’s life. Think about your own life. To what extent is the college you are attending shaping the course of your life, and in what ways? Write a response to O’Keefe in the form of a blog entry, using her essay as your They Say.
They Say I Blog 
O’Keefe does make a persuasive argument that community college is a real college just like many of the big universities. She explains through the piece that community college students do just as much work, if not more, and earn the same degrees. However, O’Keefe could make the argument stronger by including how sometimes students have to go to these colleges because their grades are not good enough for larger universities to accept them. Also, it would be helpful to make the point that even students who are well-off choose to go to one of these colleges. You do not have to be struggling to choose a community college.
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(1) I believe that O’Keefe creates a very persuasive argument. Community colleges are too often discredited and looked down upon. O’Keefe makes many valid points in defending community colleges. People work hard in community colleges while often balancing jobs, families, and other daily struggles. I think O’Keefe could have added stats about community college students moving on to four year universities or moving on to full time jobs.
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Yes her argument is very persuasive. She talks about how for most of those kids that go to community colleges they don’t have a backup school like other kids who go to bigger colleges or university’s. This could be for one or two reasons, they didn’t make the grades because they messed around too much and didn’t care or they can’t afford to go to bigger schools. This one applies to me. I am going to a tech school next school year so that I can get some scholarship money that I missed out on not because my familuy can’t afford tutiton at a bigger school without the money I just think it is crazy to turn down the money and ask my parents to pay full tuition just so I can be selfish and go to a 4 year college or university right from the start.
One thing that O’Keefe could improve I think is by saying what community college she worked at because saying that even though she didn’t go to a community college but she did work at one without stateing the name of the community college and where it is doesn’t help her credibility iin my mind because she could just be saying it to sound credible.
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The writer/speakers argument really isn’t an effective persuasive argument to me. I think that O’Keefe does bring up some good points at times such as Community colleges not priding themselves on the 10% acceptance rate but an open door policy instead. That could make someone feel a little more at ease with going to that kind of College. I could really use some more key strong facts/biased opinions by the author that answers my question as to why are community colleges truly not on the same level as bigger universities? After reading the piece I sorta get an understanding on this claim but I do think it could leave me with more of a better one. She possibly could have added more stats or simply that ANYONE can choose a Community College. Wealthy, Poor, Most intelligent, Less intelligent etc…
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O’Keefe’s argument is persuasive because she worked in a community college and saw how hard many of the students worked towards their diplomas. O’Keefe could have made her argument stronger by adding an individual’s story in her writing so the reader can make a personal connection to the story. Overall, O’Keefe’s essay is very persuasive because it gives many reasons to why community college is the same or even better than a “real college” like how community college graduates can get jobs after they graduate.
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I agree with O’Keefe’s assertion that community college is in fact “real college.” Her argument is effective in shedding light on the daily life of most community college students. Between taking college classes, working a part-time job for extra money, and family responsibilities, community college students work just as hard as students at larger universities. I think her argument could have been made stronger by including a specific student’s story of their experiences at a community college. This would help portray the daily life at a community college and prove that community college is “real” by showing a real person’s experience.
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I completely agree with O’Keefe. Community college is not something to get looked down upon at all . I think that finishing high school and moving on to college period is a major accomplishment. O’Keefe could have added more information to back up his argument including statistics and actually surveying college students. I love that O’Keefe did not slander people who are actually in major four year universities as well.
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(5) I do believe that choosing the school I will be attending will change the course of my life due to many things. Since I am going to a smaller school I won’t have to pay as much and I won’t have tons of student loans after I graduate. Also, since I have already taken college credit classes in high school I will be able to knock out hours in my first year and begin taking more classes that is based on my major. Now that I will be able to focus more on my major I will be a step ahead from my friends attending a four-year college. Even though community colleges are looked down upon, many people need to realize how much they would benefit them in the long run.
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I believe O’Keefe did a nice job of persuading people to believe community college is real college. She made the point that even if it is a community college students are still earning degrees and going to classes and working and paying real money to go to these community colleges. She made her argument stronger by starting that some people physically don’t have the time to go off to “real college”, some students have jobs or families that they need to take care of. For some people community college is just a better option if it’s all they need to get where they want to be in life.
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Yes, O’Keefe is very persuasive she is changing how people view community college. She is persuasive because she makes a lot of strong points on how community college is just as good. O’Keefe said, “Sixty-one percent attend part-time; a majority of them work.” When she says this she is making the point that most of the community college students are hardworking. If the students are like this it makes community college sound better making it seem like students at a four year do not work as hard.
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(5) O’Keefe’s essay is not only interesting, it hits the nail right on the head. In many ways, the notion of “real college” is a connection to our lineage of academic snobbery as a means of class distinction; it is a way many people are able to distinctly call themselves “better” or “more educated.”
O’Keefe reminds us – you know, the pointy-headed, liberal, New York Times reading folk – that the attendees of community colleges often come with important commitments (full-time work, their own families, transportation needs) beyond the classroom and social commitments typical of the “real college” student. Committing to such a balancing act in many ways exceeds the typical demands of “real college” undergraduate time. In my own undergraduate experiences, the most difficult issues never required me to think much beyond myself; if I needed help with a paper, I could walk five minutes from my dorm to the writing center in the library. If I needed an extension on a paper, I could meet with my professor at her or his convenience. If I failed a class, I could simply retake it the next semester with a slight adjustment to my financial aid package and social agenda.
It’s clearly not reasonable to argue that students should not aspire to those places O’Keefe calls “real college.” After all, the education received at the Harvads, Yales, Browns, and state flagship universities of the world are often high-level, demanding, and rewarding that provide special knowledge required in professions like engineering and teaching.
These jobs, however, are no more or less vital than the work supported by community college curriculum. As O’Keefe explains, the joy associated with graduation is not only the achievement of goals, but an affirmation that these students’ “real work force programs and go straight to real jobs. And by the way, they make real money and real contributions to the economy and their communities”
Choosing academic snobbery over inclusion ignores the authentic and meaningful learning going on on the community college campus, and denigrates the accomplishments of those in whom we in the academic community should have the most pride.
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O’Keefe is persuasive in her argument because she uses her personal experience as someone who went to an university and then worked at a community college. She asks her reader to imagine adding certain things that those who go to a community college might have to do in addition to their school work. She uses this to show how they can juggle more in their time which makes them more likely for them to be hire. She includes the point that, “One former community college president I know was asked if her dream job was to be president at Harvard. And she said that while it’s clearly a special place, the students who attend Harvard would likely be successful with or without that university. Whereas for many of the students who attended her college, there was no backup school. Their lives were changed fully and completely by community college.” She also ends by saying next time you see someone going to a community college tell them you are proud of them. She could have a students personal experience at a community college and what they say about their experience there.
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1) We consider her argument to be very persuasive, she brings up good points of views about how community college students have to jumble more than “real” college students. She also says that it has better real life work, rather than just sitting in a classroom all day they get real hand on experience. She could’ve made her arguments stronger by pointing out the distractions that real college offers and how that when yore enrolled in community college you are busy with other things ad don have time to worry about those distractions.
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(5) Kristen, Kaitlyn, Amber, and I are all attending colleges that are not community colleges. We have all taken AP and or dual credit classes and been on the path of advanced classes since middle school. We have all worked hard to get where we are and get accepted to the colleges that we have applied to. This last year of high school has kind of shaped us and prepared us or college classes, but in most ways we have still been cradled. When we actually go to college the way the teachers may teach their class and direct their class will probably be totally different from what we have gotten used to during our undergraduate years. O’Keefe argues that community colleges are real colleges and persuades very well, but also gets into how their outside life can shape their lives’ as well. However, outside life and hard-work can happen in colleges that are not community.Either way you have to adapt to a lot of changes that you may not be used to.
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1) In O’Keefe’s argument she is trying to persuade others to not deliberate about the idea that community college is not of the same standards as “real” colleges. Those who go to community colleges are just as good as those who go to “real colleges”. They are just as likely to obtain a high paying occupation as those who attend “real” colleges. She also gives a good point that those who go to community colleges may have bigger responsibilities like having a family, transportation issues, and having a job.
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O’Keefe is making a strong argument for the idea that community college is a “real” college. O’Keefe says that these students are paying real money to attend these schools, and in return, they make real money which contributes to the real economy. This argument is strong because it grabs the attention of the working class, which is most all adults in society. Something O’Keefe can add to make her argument more persuasive is some statistics regarding the price of flagship universities against the community colleges, and how the salaries of those degrees represent the tuition of different universities.
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I would consider a community college more of a sub college than a full on college particularly because the programs are indeed funded and developed differently and also because of the community colleges have more of an aspiring reputation than the fully developed reputations of the full blown universities.
In response to question 5, I think that where you go to college definitely affects the future because, as I said before, the reputations of schools will matter in job application and future projects. I would say that it also makes a large difference where you go to college because programs are more developed and education is better provided at real universities.
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Holly, Kaylee, Joey: 2) O’Keefe’s assertion that people in the US can be divided into “people who believe in community colleges and people who dismiss and even diminish them,” is a valid statement because many people view community colleges as a place where less-educated people go in order to get a low-paying job and avoiding the stresses of getting a better education at a big 4-year college. However, community colleges hold the same academic standings and education for people who are not as financially able to spend thousands of dollars on college. Some people have other responsibilities and simply cannot afford to be a full time student. Some have parents they have to assist and take care of financially, some have part-time jobs, and others simply do not want to spend that kind of money for the an education they can receive on the same level for less. We believe that community college is important, effective, and holds the same educational benefits for less. They also provide opportunities for students who, without a community college in their area, would most likely end up without anything further than a high school diploma.
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Yes O’Keefe is very persuasive in her argument of community college being a real college. She gives her views and is very persuasive in saying that community college is a college just like any other 4 year school. She shows how most people who attend community college work and attend part-time. Those who attend community college, go to school, work and maintain a life, unlike some who go to a “real college”. Her argument would have been stronger if she would have included some stories from people who attended a community college and maybe some statistics on how people do in the work field after they graduate from community college.
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I agree
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Interesting to read everyone’s perspectives on my article. I agree with those who advocate adding additional stats and stories; those would indeed strengthen the article. One of the challenges I had was a word count limitation. So did the article include the very best points? Definitely up for discussion.
The feedback also reminds me how much we are shaped by our own experiences. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
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I personally think O’Keefe was very persuasive on her argument. She provided very good and specific examples backing up the argument that community colleges deserve the same credit as universities. Her statements on how students at community colleges have a different lifestyle than those of universities was a good point. Even though O’Keefe herself did not have this lifestyle. O’Keefe could have been more persuasive by provided some stories of successful community college alumni and some other piece of information that could accredit community colleges to be as high as universities
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1) I do believe that the argument given by O’Keefe was very persuasive. She showed us through giving examples and statistics why going to a community college is just as hard and deserves the same merit as going to a “real college”.
2) I agree with O’Keefe when she divides people in ones who support and believe in community colleges and others who don’t. Some close-minded people don’t view community college as an equal. Just because the name doesn’t include the phrase “university” or “academy” and the costs are much cheaper than many schools, community colleges still provide an education to students that are willing to go. I definitely am on the side of the argument that believes community colleges are of value. All education is worthy of reward, no matter if it is from a community college or somewhere else.
3) By stating that she had not been an attendee of community college, it somewhat weakens her argument. She then follows up her statement with saying that she worked in a community college, therefor she was able to see the struggles that the students who attend community college endure.
4) In Addison’s writing, she talked about how she attended a community college, and from there she was able to apply and attend the University of Privilege. This shows and backs up O’Keefe’s statement that community college is useful. It was able to open doors and help Addison get accepted to a university that, had she not attended community college, she might have not been accepted to.
5) By dual enrolling at a community college, I am able to take higher level classes than offered at my high school. I can use these classes to my advantage and gain more knowledge, and take the lessons I am learning on to further things. Also, by dual enrolling in community college, this will hopefully help me get into other universities to continue my education after high school.
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While the author does indeed make a persuasive argument that community college is not to be looked down upon, I would have liked to see more on why people look down upon community college and look up to the higher colleges.. She effectively communicates about privilege and how community college should not be discredited given how it allows opportunity to those who are not able to attend expensive universities. Community college provides an education to those struggling, and it may even be better than some other “real” colleges people talk about, but I feel as though the author fails to explain the the similarities and difference in education between “real” colleges and community colleges.
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University names are highly overrated, and I will tell you why. When I began earning my undergraduate degree I remember applying to several schools across Pennsylvania. Of the many schools I applied to I remember picking my county’s community college, and thinking “this is just in case my plan doesn’t fall through”. Surely enough when the acceptance letters started to roll in I got accepted into my first choice school, Widener University. I remember my family members and I just being thrilled that I didn’t have to go to ‘community college’. It became instilled in me that community college were for ‘losers’ and for people who ‘didn’t try hard enough’ in school. A lot of people even referred to it as 13th grade to insinuate that it was simply a continuation of high school and not ‘real’ college. It wasn’t until I failed out of my nursing program and I had to attend my local college was when I truly realized the value of their education. I learned a lot of skills and information that I am able l apply in my school and workplace. Till this day, I still can say that going to that college was some of the best education I received in the many colleges I’ve went to.
Kristin O’Keefe, the author of ‘Real people, real college: Kristin O’Keefe on academic snobbery’ made a very persuasive argument upon how undervalued a community college education is. O’Keefe utilizes statistics that showed the reason why the nation has such as high percentage of undergraduates is because 46% of them are enrolled in community college. She even discusses the extreme differences of diversity, culture, and lifestyle of those enrolled in their local colleges verses those who are enrolled in a four-year university.
The reality is the culture in the United States does tend to glorify those who are accepted into ‘name-brand’ schools and tends to discriminate against those who choose to do the latter. Allowing themselves to believe that if I get into this university I will be eligible for the best jobs and highest salary. Which is very far from being true. Many may argue that O’Keefe is not suitable to speak on the subject because she never attended a community college. Though this may be true we also must realize that you don’t have to be a student in order to identify the differences or similarities between the two establishments. Her role as an employee at a community college and being exposed to that culture in correspondence to her own experiences at her four-year college is enough to come to the conclusion that their values are the same. The only difference between Widener University and Delaware County Community College is a tuition and a name.
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March 2004 was one of the biggest moments in my life. Here I am sitting at my grandmother’s dining room table along with eight other members of my family. They were anxiously waiting for me to make my big decision. Would it be the big time Historically Black College, the medium sized university in the mountains or my local community college? My decision was made after pressure from my parents and siblings I decided to go to the medium sized university in the mountains. Going to this particular university could have possibly been the best and/or worst decision I have ever made. Indeed, I learned how to live with other cultures and finally be a little independent but on the other hand, I lost total focus on school and fell into the University party scene.
The experiences that many students have faced in universities that have forced them to unsuccessfully finish the university allows one to agree with Kristin O’Keefe, the author of The Community College/ ‘Real College’ Divide. The cost and class size at these universities can be enormous which could be a reason why some people go to community college. Although O’Keefe does use statistical data on the percentage of individuals attending community college, these stats don’t break down the why these individuals are attending community colleges. Grades, finances and location can all be factors on why one would attend a community college. These factors could also be the same reasons why someone would choose to attend a university. O’Keefe mentioned by going to a community college a person could find a lot of diversity. Others could argue the same by going to a university. Attending a university allows individuals to come in contact with more diverse cultures including some international cultures over maybe more local cultures at a community college.
In conclusion attending a community college versus going to a university have several of the same pros and cons. They are probably very few people who would want to pay thousands of dollars a year for school but on contrary these process for school does pay for the wondrous benefits you get from attending a university such as options to study abroad and more than likely meeting people that have less responsibilities. A community college can allow an individual to go on their own time while working a raising a family. A community college is less expensive and can also allow one to take only the classes needed. Attending a post-secondary school whether it’s community or university is the aim for some successes in life.
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I thing O’keefe did a good job of persuading people to believe community college is real college. It’s really not something to look down on. She did mention that student who goes to community college don’t have backup school like other student who goes to universities. This could be one of the reasons because they never had good grades to go to universities. This one refers to me. I am currently enrolled to a community college to have a good grade to be able to enter to a university to follow my master’s degree program. Many people need to realize how much they will benefit if they go through community college before going to universities. O’keefe really did a good job of persuading people.
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I wholeheartedly agree with O’Keefe. I attend a community college for a few reasons. One I rather not spend a ton of money on my schooling right off. They have one of the best nursing programs in the state. I also have not been to school in a long time. It has been a few years and I am finally graduating this Friday. I don’t have any student loans or debt. I will be entering the nursing program soon and once I am done I will be making good enough money to obtain my BSN and still will not have loans. I feel like I am better off than my counterparts because I will not have the loans and I will have the same basic experience of going to college as they would. The professors I’ve had have all been pretty amazing and very informative and the classes were fairly tough. In fact, when speaking to a friend who attends our local CSU and transferred from our CC they have mentioned that some classes at the CC were much more difficult. Just because you attend a CSU doesn’t mean you’re getting a better education. You’re paying for a name basically. It’s like buying Pepsi and paying more because of the name when you could’ve bought Shasta for a lower cost and it tastes similar.
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Her argument is very persuasive, I couldn’t have agreed with her anymore then I already do. The examples that she used were outstanding and the way she explained to us how people look at community collage was spot on because it is the truth that is how a lot of our nation views it. I also do feel that she could have used several other examples of what people think and how it really is like going to a community collage, sure it is about the money it is the cheaper way to go but she is missing the major key points. People go to community collage to become a better person and give them self that extra boost and reminder of education, you also need to think not everyone had the greatest high school carrier, including my self a community collage in my opinion is also about a second chance a saving grace for those who didn’t get a very good run in high school whether it was do to not caring or simply just not applying your self. Its a second chance to change that, raise your gpa and leave the past in the past. Going to a community collage is nothing to be ashamed of because that is one step closer to accomplishing your goal in life and you should do whatever it is that you feel you need to do to reach that goal. A community collage is a huge step into becoming successful individual.
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In the article “Real people, real college: Kristin O’Keefe on academic snobbery,” she believes that all colleges are real colleges an di do agree. She says The nation is dived into to groups ones that believe in community colleges and some that dismiss them and diminish them. I go to a community college and it is what is best for me at the time I decided to go to college. O’Keefe says that any student who is able to run a multitask life by going to school full time, working a full time job and earn a degree is a very impressive thing. I agree 100% with everything O’Keefe says in her article.
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O’Keefe’s argument is very persuasive to me. Ever since I was a little girl I always just thought universities were the real thing. After reading this I realize how biased I was towards colleges. She gives all of these points as to why community colleges are real too and that you shouldn’t just put them down. They are just the same and may be more beneficial to certain people. She gave many statements that went with her argument and makes you see another side. She finds a way to relate the problems to people of all ages. Her argument could have been more effective if she would have actually went to a community college and realize the struggle personally. She could have added actual facts and stories to make you see the real problem.
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I was really pulled into this article because I was curious to see what the writers views were. After reading this article I feel more proud than ever to be a community college student. Just yesterday while at work, the floor doctor was advising a patients son in choosing a college. He stated that he should attend a more prestigious college rather than something more affordable. He was saying he would be more likely to get a job with the college name. It sort of bothered me that someone could view an education just by the name of the school. It really was interesting to hear the author make the comment about an employer being more likely to hire a graduate who was able to juggle life, work through school rather than a graduate who was handed it. That touched me and made me even more proud of myself. And being someone who has worked with both types of graduates, I will choose the community college graduate who juggled life through school over the huge school graduate any day.
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Krisrtin O’Keefe made a persuasive argument that community college does the same job as well as other well-known Universities. I do agree that community colleges sometime get overlooked when they should not. My oldest brother attended a junior community college in Danville for 2 years and will graduate from Bellarmine in December with an actuary degree. Seeing my brother get to where he is now with a community colleges make me agree with O’Keefe. I believe that community college is just as important as all of the larger university. Community college may not have all of the opportunities of a large university when it comes to majors and other things but in the end you can get the same outcome, a degree.
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O’Keefe was very persuasive with her argument. I like the fact that she said community college is a real college and the diploma you receive is a real diploma. No its not a university diploma but it holds the same value to me when I walk the line on graduation day. Community colleges make it easier for people like me who hold a full time job and still have to support a family and yourself. The hours and classes are flexible so it makes something I have always dreamed of possible. Community Colleges are also not as expensive and you still earn the same degree as you could at a University. I am grateful that Community Colleges are accredited and give us the same opportunity as someone going to a university. Community College gives others a greater chance because they actually get accepted when no one else will. Community Colleges are just as good as your University’s.
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I think O’Keefe was accurate when she was talking about how the nation is divided when it came to community colleges. I believe there are people out there that think that community college aren’t real and there are people who think they are real colleges. I have always thought that community colleges weren’t real colleges because in the media they thought that community colleges weren’t real. After I read this I have changed my mind and think that community colleges are real and for some people it’s the only way they can get a education because universities are so expensive. I am glad that O’Keefe wrote this blog because now she is educating everyone about how community colleges and people who go to community colleges should be given more respect.
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O’Keefe’s argument is very compelling and persuasive. She strives to change the minds of many and i think that she has. She opened many people eyes to what is real. I do believe she could have made more of a connection with her audience and then it would have made it easier to help people consider that community college is real college. Otherwise she definitely caught the attention of many and still continues to change the views of many.
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When O’Keefe asserts that people in the US can be divided into “people who believe in community colleges and people who dismiss and even diminish them.” I believe that this is very accurate, and here is why, there are some people around the world that feel like people who go to community colleges are nothing. They feel as if you go to a community college you would not get the proper education you should be getting, which is very untrue. People also feel that if you got to a community college you are less likely to get a higher paying job, which is also very untrue. I feel as if there are people who turn their backs to community colleges because they feel that way think that they are better than others. In all honesty, that is just how some people are raised. Some families were raised on the fact that they have to go to a real university and if they did not the family would look down on them. Some families can be very supportive and helpful when you tell them you want to start off in a community college. Nothing is wrong with community college. At the end of the day, college is college. As long as you are getting some type of education that is all that should matter.
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It is often drilled into students’ heads that a four-year university is not only the best option after high school graduation, but the only option. Community college is often overlooked by students who would benefit from an academic setting different than the traditional university. There is a great emphasis in today’s society on getting accepting into and attending well-known and prestigious universities, but the conversation about community colleges and their possible benefits is often avoided. It is important to consider these benefits and to shift into a society that acknowledges community college on the same level as four-year universities. As students have previously mentioned, O’Keefe establishes credibility on this topic by explaining how she went to a four-year university, but then worked at a community college, so she understands both environments and experiences. O’Keefe’s main argument is that community college is “real” college, just in a different capacity.
I would agree with other students that O’Keefe is indeed persuasive in her argument. She explains that while these students may sometimes be working at a different pace than those at a four-year college, many of these students are attending schools with full-time jobs, families at home, or stressful financial situations. The ability to balance all of this is as “real” as it gets. Community college is often looked at as a second option, when for 46% of America’s undergraduate students, it is the most reasonable and attainable option.
A few students brought up the question of why people view community college as lesser than traditional universities, and why O’Keefe did not include that in her article. To that, I would say that people are not likely to admit that they think less of community college, but the idea of superiority comes from people’s values on prestige. While one would be celebrated profusely if they were to get into an Ivy, such as Cornell or Yale, getting into community college is not seen as an accomplishment. The reality is, as O’Keefe mentions in her article, that people who attend these elite universities would have been be successful even if they had not attended such school, while people in community college may need it to simply get their feet of the ground. Taking the necessary steps to achieve a degree, no matter where, how quickly, or how expensive, should be considered “real”.
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In Kristin O’Keefe’s article, “Real people, real college,” I think she does a great job of presenting her argument and persuading the reader to reconsider his or her opinion on community college. I agree with Josh Priddy’s statement that community colleges are looked down on because they don’t hold as high a status as regular colleges and universities. No matter what college or university a student is attending, they are still getting a degree and that is something that holds value. I also agree with him when he says that O’Keefe is successful in defending community college and the stigma that comes with it. She offers valid points as to why it is just as good as a ‘real’ college and explains that students work just as hard to earn their degree. I believe Walker makes a good point when he says that her argument could be strengthened if she included a personal experience while she taught at a community college, so that the reader can better relate to and understand her argument. I think the fact that she uses the world ‘real’ in front of community college, work force and jobs, shows that by attending community college, graduates can still get real jobs like those who attend ‘real colleges.’ Overall, I think O’Keefe is successful in explaining that there is nothing wrong with going to community college and that it may be the best choice for some people. People shouldn’t feel ashamed for going to community college. Instead, they should be recognized for balancing school, work and family life because many college students would have a hard time handling that.
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Sea Turtle Poacher’s claim that college is all about the name rests upon the questionable assumption that all employers care about is reputation. This claim goes against what O’Keefe argues in her article. Although it is true that community colleges are both funded and developed differently, that does not make them any less than schools who have big-name donors and cutting edge plans. As O’Keefe says herself, community colleges pride themselves not on their slim acceptance rates, but on their open door policies, allowing nearly 46% of the nation’s population to attend college as undergraduates. Students who attend community college earn diplomas to those earned at Harvard or Yale. In reality, many employers would rather see someone go to a community college and do well, than go to a top tier school and be at the bottom of their class; a perfect example of this is the variety of students who attend community colleges. They could be parents, veterans, or students right out of high school; whether this is their first or third try, as O’Keefe states, each student is still striving to reach their goal, which is a supportive job in the near future. Saying that community college is sub-par compared to name brand colleges, as Sea Turtle Poacher does, discredits the amount of work that both students and faculty at community colleges put into what they do.
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While I agree with Caroline Drouillard’s point that community colleges can offer the same education as a ‘name brand’ school, Drouillard overlooks the value of the stereotypical “college experience” of living away from home and attending a university that does not sit in your local community. I can affirm this view based on my experience at the University of South Carolina, a ‘name brand’ school that has offered me much more than an academic education. My attendance at the university has taught me how to live independently, make important decisions for myself, manage my time effectively, and most importantly, learn to function in my day-to-day life without the guidance of my parents. While O’Keefe offers the view that ‘their lives were changed fully and completely by community college” because it was the only option that they had, I was privileged enough to have more options that only my local community college, Central Piedmont Community College, and my life indeed was changed too. However, my life would not have gained some of the necessary skills that I did not have yet if I had been commuting to my community college and if I had not moved out of my childhood home.
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Kristen O’Keefe makes a strong argument against the bias against community colleges in “The Community College/ ‘Real College’ Divide”. Her main point is arguing against the stigma against community colleges due to the diverse group of people that they benefit. She writes that Sixty-one percent attend part-time; a majority of them work. With this she is showing how community college enrollees often times have other commitments requiring their attention, unlike a traditional college student where the only things they face are what they choose within school. She also fights for the authenticity of the community colleges, fighting against the people who do not see them as “real.” In other words, she is saying that community college classes, credits, and diplomas are all just as “real” as any other college. O’Keefe fights greatly against the stigma against community colleges and shows the good things that they offer compared to big universities, showing that the only thing they lack is a “big name.”
I agree with the points that O’Keefe makes in this article. All of the good that community colleges offer people is never fully recognized or is downplayed due to the fact that they are not big universities. These colleges deserve the recognition they have earned and the should be recognized for the amount of people they give the chance to succeed. One of the best quotes she incorporates into her piece is one from a former community college president. It reads “And she said that while it’s clearly a special place, the students who attend Harvard would likely be successful with or without that university.” I fully agree with this quote and it shows how vital community colleges are to the nation. Students who get into Harvard are some of the greatest minds in the nation and would surely succeed no matter where they attended college. On the contrary, community college allows for students to have the chance to succeed as well, even if they are in less fortunate circumstances. These benefits should be more recognized in the nation and the stigma against community colleges should be ended.
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I totally agree with O’Keefe’s argument. Community colleges are fine academic institutions and commendable options when one wishes to attend college but may not have the funds to do so. Community colleges open doors to those who found that the door was closed with other colleges and universities. Though many look down upon those who choose to attend community college, they should instead be applauding them for choosing to continue their academic career opposed to giving up. O’Keefe highlights that community college students are sometimes even better off than those who attend college or university, as they often have many other responsibilities to juggle in addition to their academics.
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Cassidy frank
O’keefes argument about community college is very persuasive. I already considered community college a “real college” but reading her argument made me more confident to say it is a real one, she also gave me reasons on why it is. She explained that community college can get you to a good job to make good “real” money, as for the same a university. I know a few who think badly of community college and thinks It is a waste of time. Some think a university is more important and that it will get you your degree, but so will community college. You can get a degree either college. I Think community college is a great thing. It helps those who can’t afford a university, you can get your degree, you can get a great job, etc. O’Keefe could have seen the obstacles through a student or a friend. Also that’s why a lot of people go to community college, they have so much going on in their life that they only have time to do college part time or can only afford community college. Me, myself can only afford community college, also I work over 30 hours a week, and have a child of my own to care for. Community college has helped me a lot, I’m less stressed because I only have classes a few times a week, I get to work and see my son, and it’s affordable. Community college is my best interest right now, I have so much going on in my life right now.
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When it comes to the topic of college, most of us will readily agree that it is essential to attend. Where this conversation ends, however, is how legitimate each college option is. In the article, “The Community College/ ‘Real College’ divide”, Kristin O’Keefe argues that community college is just as legitimate of an option as a university. I agree with commenter MLR that community colleges provides an education to people who may not be able to afford a university’s pricy education and that in fact some community colleges are better than the ‘real’ colleges people admire. People tend to degrade community college and as O’Keefe highlights, “Community college is real college. Real students must accrue real credits to earn real diplomas. Many students transfer from their real community colleges to real universities, while others enroll in real work force programs and go straight to real jobs.” I completely agree with O’Keefe’s argument that community college is an affordable and credible way of obtaining a college degree, despite what others may think.
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O’Keefe presents a controversial opinion in her article, arguing that community colleges are valid alternatives to 4 year Universities. Hannah does a decent job analyzing O’keefe’s argument, however Hannah’s statement is underdeveloped. Hannah’s argument only analyzes the potential facts O’keefe could have included, as well as argues that O’keefe’s point is persuasive without really saying why it is persuasive. This failure to acknowledge reasoning as well as the multiple points regarding what O’keefe could have included leads me to believe that O’keefe’s article is not persuasive, although reading it yields that it is persuasive, so I would recommend an edit to Hannah’s post elaborating on her statements.
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I agree with KJ’s argument that employers don’t solely care about the reputation of the college someone got their degree from. In reality, many employers try to have a diverse group of employees from different types of schools, or they don’t really care that much about where someone got their degree. The experiences and skills someone brings trump the writing at the top of their diplomas. As O’Keefe points out, many community college students hold a valuable perspective that students at major universities can’t obtain, making them a special asset to employers, rather than subpar to more “prestigious” graduates.
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I agree with O’Keefe that the stereotype that community colleges are not real colleges needs to be done away with. The goal of college is to obtain a degree and that is possible at both a “real” and a community college. I agree with Amari that it is good O’Keefe did not talk bad about four year colleges. Both colleges provide students with ways to earn degrees. Community colleges and “real” colleges only differ in the people that attend. Community colleges provide the ideal setting for students who can only attend school part time because of work or family problems. They provide students with less distractions than other colleges do. Community colleges should not be labeled “not a real college” when they provide students with the same opportunities as other colleges.
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This article brought up an issue that really resonates with me. The author and I share common ground because I am currently a community college student. O’Keefe is absolutely correct that there is a stigma attached to community colleges and that many of the students not only recognize it but also feel ashamed because of it. As a senior in high school, I experienced the stigma firsthand. When my family, friends, and even strangers asked my future plans for college, many were certainly not ecstatic and some were even shocked that I had chosen to attend a community college. I decided to attend a community college because it is an affordable way to earn an associates degree and credits that can transfer to a four-year university. From my personal experience at Ivy Tech Community College, I absolutely agree with O’Keefe that community colleges are authentic and provide a real education for their students. Just like any other college student, I attend classes equipped with hard-working, qualified teachers. The students learn each subject and complete assignments, essays, tests, and quizzes in order to earn credits and a diploma. Funny enough, I actually spend more time doing school work than many of my peers who attend what are considered “real” universities.
I liked the content of the article and I feel it did a good job of bringing awareness to this issue. Though, I did feel some important components were missing to elevate the argument. The author succeeded in being persuasive to a friendly audience, such as myself, but does not include enough facts and examples to persuade a resist audience who finds community colleges inferior to change their mind. Giving quantitate data on quality of academics in community colleges would be a great addition to O’Keefe’s arguments. Overall, O’Keefe did a wonderful job expressing the qualitative significance and spirit of a community college.
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I agree with Kristen O’ Keefe that community colleges are real colleges. I believe that community colleges should be considered real colleges because the students attending those courses are taking real college courses that are taught at other universities. It is a shame that some people today, feel that going to a community college is not the same as going to a real college. Community college is a real college since real students must earn real credits to earn real diplomas. Many students transfer from their community colleges to universities. Some do not transfer to universities, and instead earn a real associates degree or diplomas needed for them to start a career in a certain trade. People should not look down on community colleges since they are not big universities like Harvard. Even though community colleges are not like Harvard, they should not be looked down upon. Not every college is a Harvard, does that mean every college that is not an Ivy League school is not a real college? Community colleges are very important to the students enrolled in them. It lets them save thousands of dollars, and earn the units needed to get their GE’s out of the way before transferring to a university. The classes taught at community colleges are taught sometimes by professors that teach at universities. That just shows how similar the classes are from a community college and a university. I also tend to agree that community colleges are real colleges because I attend a community college. I do not feel any less important compared to a student attending a university. I feel that I am just as smart as a student attending a university. I do not feel any less of a student going to a community college. The classes that I am taking in college, are the same classes that are taken in a four year university.
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