Harvard University, now that’s a real college. You know what? So are Kirkwood Community College in Iowa, Harold Washington College in Chicago, and every community college throughout the United States—over a thousand in all. In this February 2015 New York Times essay, writer Kristin O’Keefe argues that community colleges and their students merit more respect than they’re getting.
Read it here: O’Keefe, “The community college/‘real college’ divide”
- O’Keefe is clearly hoping to change the minds of people who don’t consider community college to be “real college.” Is her argument persuasive? Why or why not? What else might O’Keefe have said to make her argument stronger?
- O’Keefe asserts that people in the US can be divided into “people who believe in community colleges and people who dismiss and even diminish them.” Do you think O’Keefe’s assertion is accurate? Why or why not? On which side of the divide would you place yourself?
- O’Keefe admits that she did not attend a community college, nor did she experience any of the challenges or obstacles that many community college students confront on a daily basis. In what ways does her admission affect her credibility and authority on the subject? Explain your reasoning.
- Read (or re-read) Liz Addison’s essay in Chapter 16 of your text. O’Keefe’s essay was personal and did not cite any other authors, but Addison could have been a very useful They Say if O’Keefe had wanted to use other authors. Select two short passages from Addison’s essay that would support O’Keefe’s argument and explain why you chose them.
- A former college president interviewed by O’Keefe mentioned that Harvard students would “likely be successful with or without that university,” but that a community college could completely change a student’s life. Think about your own life. To what extent is the college you are attending shaping the course of your life, and in what ways? Write a response to O’Keefe in the form of a blog entry, using her essay as your They Say.
They Say I Blog 
I don’t think that her piece is persuasive, but more argumentative and defensive towards community colleges. I myself wasted a year at a big university because I was scared what people would say about me going to a community college. I am now in debt with no credits to show for it because I couldn’t handle the big college life. This article made me feel way better about attending a community college this year.
I do agree with O’Keefe that there is a divide between university kids and community college kids. People look down on students in community college for what reasons I’m not sure of. A degree in Criminal Justice at JCTC is a degree in Criminal Justice at UofL, but for a third of the price. It honestly makes more financial sense to go to community college. At 19, you have to do what you can to save yourself from future debt.
I dont regret my decision to try a big university at first. It helped me realize that community college is nothing to be ashamed of because it’s where I would be most successful.
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This is an article that hits home for me. I am a single parent with a full time job and I am attending community college. I’ve heard what some people choose to say about community college; how they try to downgrade something that a lot of people work very hard for. O’Keefe does an excellent job and is very persuasive of letting people know just how real community college is. She portrays community college is a light that many people do not see. It is an affordable option for many that do not have the means otherwise to better their life. I will definitely being sharing this article with others to provide them with some insight on just how real community college is.
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I find O’Keefe article to be very persuasive! She gives very good examples of why community colleges are technically real colleges but do not get the accreditation that they diverse. I agree with O’Keefe as far as the two categories she put community colleges under. People that go to community colleges and people that dismiss them. Many people think that community colleges are not good enough for them but I think it is better to start out at a community college to get your basics. Community colleges and University’s give the same degree’s and diplomas. The only real difference is that a university is a lot more expensive than a community college.
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I would like to comment on two of the five segments pertaining to the essay written by O’Keefe. In response to number (3), I do not feel that she can honestly give a full account on the challenges that most community college students face. Many work full time jobs and have families that need their full attention. It is a struggle for them to be able to juggle their time around for classes and homework. Some also have very little income, if any. Just these two circumstances alone would create a lot of stress for anyone and make it harder to earn a degree. I just think that she could have been more persuasive had she actually attended one. The next one that I would like to comment on is number (5). I am attending a community college for the first time in my life. I dropped out of school when I was 16 and I went on to get my GED in 1986. Throughout my life, I have always worked jobs that were very physical. I am now 48 years old and I am disabled. For me, being able to attend a community college is quite possibly a life changing event. I am able to go and learn new things as well as brush up on some things that I may have forgotten. This breathes new life into a world full of possibilities for me. Without the community college giving me the opportunity to earn a degree, my future would have been quite bleak.
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I agree with O’Keefe that community college is real college. I wasn’t very confident in that answer though before reading this article. Many times, when people ask me where I go to school I am embarrassed to say a community college. I sometimes feel like they are going to look at me as a slacker who didn’t care about school until her late twenties. I like that O’Keefe has experienced both college settings. Even though she went to university with her parents help, I think the fact that she taught at a community college really opened her eyes. I think this gives her a lot of credibility in the fact that she took the time to understand where the students she worked with were coming from and what they were going through. From now on, when people ask, I won’t be ashamed to tell people where I go to school.
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O’Keefes argument about community college being real college is persuasive because she explains that people are still earning the same degrees. What she could have added to the argument though, is that a lot of people go to community college’s before moving on to bigger universities because not everyone is sure what they want to major in right away and community college is a good start to getting your prerequisite courses out of the way.
I believe that O’Keefes statement about people believing in community college or people dismissing them is accurate because a lot of people see community college as a bad place to be, like you’re there because you didn’t do well in high school and that’s the only school that would take you in. I stand with the people that believe in community college because I go to a community college myself and it has helped me figure out what career I would like to pursue and it was a good step for me to take personally, because I was scared to start out at a huge university my first year of college.
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2.I believe O’Keefe is spot on with her idea of the divide between people who think community college is “real” and people who diminish the idea of community college. I worked at a very nice salon in my hometown where all the wealthiest people in the area came to get there hair cut. One day one of the extremely rich house wives came in and was waiting to get her hair cut and was up at the front desk, where I worked, talking to my co-worker and I. Her daughter was a senior in high school and wasn’t really sure where she wanted to attend college the following year or what she wanted to major in. Her mom started naming all these top schools that they had gone and visited like University of Kentucky, University of Alabama, University of Florida, and many more. My co-worker asked if she had considered doing a year or too at community college so she could take a few different classes and maybe find something that she really likes to do and would want to pursue as a career. The look on the woman’s face was appalling, she looked disgusted and out raged. She then preceded to tell us that her daughter would be going to a real college not a college for poor people. I think this was the point in my life where I realized there really is a divide between peoples thoughts on where people go to college. I completely disagree with this woman I think that community college is an amazing resource for people of all ages to get a higher education and pursue their dreams.Both of my parents used community college at some point in their search for higher education so I have always known the value of it.
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Jaclyn Brown
1) I do believe that O’keefe’s piece was persuasive. Her piece allowed people to see from a teachers stand point that she feels community college is a real college. O’Keefe might have been able to interview a few students to back up some of her information when she is talking about how some of the students may feel.
2) O’Keefe implies that there are two different types of people, the ones who don’t believe in community college and the ones that do. I do think that there are those two different types of people out there, ones who think community college is not good enough. I fall in the lines of believing in community college. To me, college is college no matter where you are because either way you are learning what you need to. The only difference to me is that one is more expensive than the other.
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In my opinion O’Keefe is very persuasive in this article. O’Keefe explained good reasoning of why people choose community college. She talks about how it’s cheaper than a University. She could have added that a lot of people choose community college because it offers online classes for the people that have a busy life with work and family. Yes I believe her assertion is accurate. My reasoning is a lot of people that grew up with a wealthy family don’t want their kids going to a community college because they feel it won’t look as good on a resume for a job, or they might think you get what you pay for and since it’s cheaper could feel like it isn’t beneficial. I’m personally on the the community college side. Her creditably could be diminished because she didn’t personally go through the things she is talking about, but she did personally see it from working there so I think her authority on the subject is still good and accurate.
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O’Keefe states that community college is a real college, and I agree 100%. She has made a very persuasive argument and provided facts to back up her arguments. It’s not just because I myself attend a community college, but at the end of the day when I or anyone else who graduates from community college we will have real degrees. Like individuals from a university, we will be able to apply for the same job. Now don’t think me naive because I know it’s likely that a university graduate’s application next mine more than likely puts me out the running, but the point is that I’m just as qualified. I don’t believe that O’Keefe credibility is affected in any way by her not attending a community college. The fact that she is aware of the difference being made in colleges and their students makes her more creditable because it lets people know that she cares and wants to make a difference. She wants people to know that attending a community college doesn’t make them beneath anyone. As O’Keefe says there are many factors as to why an individual may not have been able to attend a university but it’s not our place to dismissed them as if they haven’t made great achievements.
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Although I liked the article and I agree with every point that O’Keefe made, I do not think she was effectively persuasive. In order for the audience to have a more positive view of community colleges after reading this piece, O’Keefe should have included more statistics or studies. It would be more appealing if she had included job placement rates, teacher to student ratios, cost comparisons, and information about cost savings when students attend community colleges for their associates then transfer to universities for their bachelor’s degrees. For me personally my parents always encouraged me to go to a community college to become an RN yet after graduation they seemed embarrassed to tell people I would be attending an inner city community college. I think that in order for community colleges to lose their bad reputation large employers are going to have to offer job placement guarantees (or interview guarantees at least) or community colleges are going to have to provide more incentives to attract more students (maybe a different tax break?).
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Kristin O’Keefe made a very persuasive argument regarding community college is a “real” college. The sentence that stood out most to me was in the first paragraph when the educator down-played students going to community colleges as opposed to bigger universities. She used many examples such as community college students being non-traditional in the sense of them possibly having families and jobs and financial burdens. I even liked how O’Keefe discussed her college experience at a university and her work experience at a community college. So she was able to participate in both aspects of community and university colleges.
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Her argument isn’t persuasive because all she did was say that community college was for those who probably wouldn’t be able to finish due to other factors. To strength her point she could reference that a large number of current graduates are from community college instead of just saying that undergrads are mostly in community colleges.
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I disagree with Caroline’s argument. Although community college can provide an excellent opportunity for those not fortunate enough to attend four year universities, the experiences and pathways available for students from these institutions are vastly different. It’s true that students learn vital vocational skills at community colleges, but it is inarguable that this is the same as receiving a liberal arts or STEM education from an accredited university.
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I agree with Julia’s argument that community college is different than 4 year colleges and universities. While community college is a great option, not everybody needs to go to a 4 year institution. Again agreeing with Julia again, that important skills are learned at community college it is a different education. I think the main thing that needs to be pointed out is that many people at 4 year institutions will go to a community college to take, what would have been, a harder class to transfer it to their institution. The reason behind it is because the class is less difficult.
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O’Keefe makes a great argument for why community college is just as great as a university. People tend to think negative about a CC, but they don’t think about all the different things the students are juggling between school, work, family, bills and many more. As a student at a community college I plan to study here for 2 years and then transfer to University of Louisville to finish up my education for nursing. I gave myself time before I rushed into college, I am now prepared to push through all the struggles I ru8n into in the next 4 years of my college life. I am having the same experience at my community college as my friends that go to a university, just for a cheaper price.
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I agree with O’Keefe, her argument was very persuasive, her examples from when she was working at a community college and her statistics really help solidify her point. But I would have liked to see her put why people think what the do about community colleges. I also didn’t like the way that her article sounded, it sounded as if she was putting down universities the same way people put down what she is arguing about, so it kind of make her article hypocritical. I also don’t like how to article make her sound angry and bitter, as if she just waits around to hear someone say something negative about community college so that she can jump in with her argument. I understand that she may be angry about it, but I don’t think that is how her article should have been perceived. The point in her article though, I totally agree with and am glad that people are speaking out about it, I think this is something that more people should be aware of and stop frowning upon community colleges.
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I agree with O’Keefe completely. Community College for many is an only option, for other’s it is just a stepping stone to a bigger plan. As as single mother in her thirties, college was a long decision process for me. I knew it was something that I wanted to do, but how would i get there? Graduating from high school late, i didn’t know who to talk to, who would answer my questions? If it wasn’t for my local Community College I may not have made it. What really is the difference in the first 2 years of a University and a 2 year community college? Price? Name? I would like to have seen some examples on why people look down on Community College though.
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When they say that,”I can get you to the real college” I would like show them how easy and convenient it is to study in community college. Community college gives people time to do their job and study together. It has low cost of study and it offers many degrees that can get a good job. Community college is the only place to start over anyone’s educational life. I think writer has made his point that community college is the real college. It is not just a path to a bigger university. It’s not only prepare people for job, it prepare people for life.
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O’Keefe says that she didn’t go to community college because her parents helped her out with her college experience. She says that her college experience was one that wasn’t offered to everyone. Those who go to community college can often times be the hardest working people you will meet. A lot of the people in community college are part-time students because on top of getting their education they’re working full time jobs and have families to support. Although O,Keefe didn’t go through the community college experience she mentioned that she works in one and sees that the experience isn’t any less “real” in fact in may be more “real”. I think she has a moving perspective because she has a versatile experience.
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I agree with what O’Keefe is saying. Community College is just as important as any other college in the US. for some people its the way to go. Some people that’s all they need. We all know that college isn’t the cheapest thing out there but starting at a community college can save you so much in the long run.
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Community colleges shouldn’t be looked down upon. Community colleges are a start for anyone who isn’t sure as to what they want to do, or they are just wanting to get their basics done and are planning on transferring to a university. She made a good point as to how many people in college work full and part time. Many different people juggle many things while they are attending school such as parents that have other children to take care of. The values at different colleges are the same, just the way that different people interpret it.
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While the author does indeed make a persuasive argument that community college is not to be looked down upon, I would have liked to see more on why people look down upon community college and look up to the higher colleges. She communicates about privilege and how community college should not be discredited given how it allows opportunity to those who are not able to attend expensive universities. Even though O’Keefe herself did not have this lifestyle. This argument is strong because it grabs the attention of the working class, which is most all adults in society.
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O´keefe more like O´beefe
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BIG MAC RONI
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I agree with O’Keefe, Community College is just as good as any other college. They both are going to give you the same education, one of them is just more affordable. Community College is for people that can’t or don’t want to go to far from home. Community College’s don’t get the respect they deserve. And they have a lot of pros, the only con would be you don’t get a dorm.
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On the contrary to the belief that O’Keefe’s argument is not credible, the experience of working at a community college makes the article reliable. O’Keefe may not have attended a community college, but she did interact with many people who did. Learning through others and their first hand experiences, although not personal, does teach someone a lot. O’Keefe says, “That experience made me realize how easy I had it as a full-time student at a university where my parents paid my tuition.” She explains her non-existing struggle, whereas students at community college often struggle mixing classes with “full-time job, financial worries and family obligations.” She saw the struggles these people face. Being surrounded by people who go through something doesn’t just affect the person, but everyone around then. She grew from seeing their struggle. I am one of those students who is attending a community college due to my economical state. Community is giving me the opportunity to go to school at home and work at the same time to graduate with no debt. I let my peers who are going to four years e aware of that. O’Keefe argues that the stigma community college has has to change. I agree, community college is opportunity and hope for many people. It is, as O’Keefe describes it, as real as it can get.
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